Joel Hume's Third Speech
On Stinson's Second Proposition
HUME'S THIRD REPLY,
ON THE SECOND PROPOSITION.
Gentleman Moderators, Ladies and Gentlemen:--I rise again, for the purpose of making the closing speech upon this proposition. Whatever may not be said during the short space of half an hour, will not be said at all in connection with this proposition; and in view of the awful realities of death and judgment, of eternal happiness or suffering, with what awful solemnity and anxiety should we investigate this very solemn and important subject. I desire to know the truth, as an honest man, as one who expects to meet you at the bar of God. I have deeply pondered the subject of Christianity for thirty-five years; yet, I frankly confess I know nothing experimentally of the system that has been presented to the mind of this congregation. You know where I stand, I confess it all; yet, notwithstanding such confession, ignorant and unworthy as I am, there are times when I do indulge a hope that Jesus died for me. And that I have a personal interest in the matchless merits of his atoning blood: that I have a home in heaven--but I have not learned it in the manner we have been hearing. If I used the language that sinners were damned for unbelief, I would change the phraseology; I would make at read thus, "sinners are condemned, because of unbelief;" not to be condemned in the future, but already are; hence the language of the Savior: "You are condemned already;" not that the time is to come, but the language is, you are condemned already, because you have not believed; a matter already settled.
To the quotation: "Mary hath chosen that good part, which shall not be taken from her." Did our friend tell us that Mary made that choice in unregeneracy, when she was dead in trespasses and sin; that she made that choice when she took light for darkness, bitter for sweet, good for evil? In the humble conceptions of my mind, all enlightened sinners choose Christ, from the fact that their eyes are opened, because they see. I am inclined to the idea that Mary was in this condition, for she says, my soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit doth rejoice in my God. [STINSON--I think that is not the same Mary.] Just here permit me to remark, that there is a connection of scripture that says, there are some people that take evil for good, and good for evil, light for darkness, and darkness for light, sweet for bitter and bitter for sweet. I would inquire whether that means the Christian, or the unconverted sinner? Surely it will not be contended that these are Christians. We take the ground that they are the unregenerated sinners, and that he is in that state religiously, in consequence of sin in his heart. Take the most honest sinner in this house, that desires most sincerely to go to heaven--well, he sets about the work, and in his soul he believes he is good. Let him be possessed of a great desire go to heaven; he engages in the he work--he calls evil, good; light, darkness; and darkness, light. The question is, will he not go in the wrong direction every step? Though he stands as an honest man, and believes he is right, but yet he takes evil for good, and good for evil. I ask, will he ever get there? We learn again from the scripture, when it characterizes the condition of fallen man: "That every imagination of the fallen heart, is only evil, and that continually." I will receive instruction from any brother in this house; the instruction I desire is this: If the imagination of the heart is evil continually, tell me, when and how, he is to get to heaven? [STINSON--By getting better.] Will any man make an effort to get better, when the imagination of the heart is evil continually? Will you tell me where he will begin, and how he will start? But again: "That the heart is deceitful, and above all things desperately wicked." While the heart remains in that condition, will the sinner seek the Lord, while his heart is in that condition? Surely not. If he will not, then our brother's proposition falls, for if he makes a choice, he will choose the evil, the darkness, and the bitter. Consequently, his choice is continually going away from God, instead of coming to him. Connect this expression with the quotation in my former speech, that sinners are dead in trespasses and sin; then connect them with this expression: "That the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God; neither can he know them." But our brother says he can. Neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. One of two things is true, either sinners are not natural men, or they can not know the things of the spirit of God. Upon this point, Elder Goodwin took this ground--said he: In gospel lands, where the scriptures are read, there is no such a thing as a natural man. The elder, upon the same occasion, took this ground: no man is a spiritual man till, by profession, he comes into the kingdom of Jesus Christ, and is immersed. Then, I asked this question- -said I, elder, will you please tell us, in your next speech, what we old Baptists are-- if we are not natural beings, what are we, in the name of God. Do you intend to impress upon our mind the idea that we are artificial. If there is no natural man, then I have got no place for this text; but the Bible emphatically says, that the natural man can not receive spiritual things. This whole argument, that dead sinners can choose eternal life, you see, falls to the ground. But my brother tells us he had not time to follow me into the twelfth of John. I thought, no wonder. Elder Franklin, in my discussion with him at Mount Vernon, had undertaken to mention the same proposition; when I approached this text, he acknowledged the fact that there was some exception to the proposition, and he stated that God had given them over to reprobation of mind. No wonder that he would not follow me into John. Let the matter be as it may, there are some men that can not believe. If that is the case, our brother's proposition is gone; he has acknowledged all I want him to; and will he be kind enough, in the afternoon, to tell us what portion are in this state? Will you tell who they are, and how many that can not believe? for God says, there are some. I have just as much right as he has to say it is this man. So you see the fact remains that God declares there are some that can not believe. I will add, that he distinctly declares the fact, but the reason why they can not, says the prophecy which proceeded out of the mouth of Isaiah is, that God had hardened their hearts, and blinded their eyes, lest they should see and hear and be saved.
STINSON--You will allow me to say that there was a time when these men could have believed.]
Then we have this kind of an idea, that there is a time when probation ceases; that there is a time when they may and a time when they may not; when they can and can not. Oh! thou servant of the most high God, will you tell the people just when that time is? If this is so, we ought to be very careful how we speak of this matter. If the salvation of sinners depends upon a correct understanding of this point, we can never be too particular in determining to what extent that probation exists among men. But I understand Brother Stinson to say, that upon the ground of faith he predicated the doctrine of choosing Christ. Supposing, for the sake of argument, I admit this, what will be the result? I think he will find that his proposition will not be sustained; for the Bible says all men have not faith. What will he do with them? Now here is a plain declaration - all men have not faith. Another, that without faith it is impossible to please God. Now, tell me how these men without faith are to please him? If they can not please him, how then can they be saved? So much for the subject of faith in that place.
His next point is, that Christian experience has demonstrated the truth of his position. O, my soul! have been deceived for thirty-five years? Am I yet dead? Am I yet a stranger to God and the covenant he has made? If I know anything about Christian experience, I will say there was a time when I cared no more about my own soul than if I had none. I had no desire to go to church, nor to read the Bible; I had no desire to hear any talk upon that subject. I was not seeking the Savior; I was running away from God--sinning against him with a high hand and an outstretched arm; but shall never forget, while I am allowed a place upon God's footstool, the first serious thought that crossed my mind upon the subject of Christianity. I have heard men talk about agencies and instrumentalities in this grand work, but if there was any agency in my awakening to my condition as a sinner, it was the abominable practice of blaspheming the name of God. At that time I was working as a hand upon a steamboat. There I heard the most blasphemous oaths that ever disgraced humanity, and the thought occurred to my mind what an awful wicked set of beings you are; and the next thought was, you are as bad as they. These men pour out all that is in them, while you conceal it up as filth. I ask you, friends, was I choosing--was I desiring? Surely not. But from that hour till the day I trusted in God, I was unable to see how God could be just and save sinners. I chose holiness and despised sin, and never shall I forget the last afternoon of the deep agony of my soul; it was in a paw-paw thicket, in the east end of this state. My soul feels deeply interested when I think upon that dark and gloomy evening. I left the spot with this conviction: hell is my portion; I an doomed, and there is no mercy for such a rebel as you. I went to the little cabin in which I was living, and I leaned against the wall and closed my eyes. O, Christian friends! if my tongue had been taken out by the roots, every breath would have gone up to God in prayer. Till then I was not seeking Christ, but he sought and found me. Christ revealed himself to me. I would say to every sinner, I care not what your names, if you live as Christians, have not these been some of your exercises?
We were next told the will must be brought into action. I admit the fact; but the next question is, what kind of will is it? Is it the carnal will with which we will to sin? Now, I make this statement, that, in the absence of light, there is no will, and in the absence of will, there is no action. The first important thing, then, is divine light in the soul; out of that divine light there comes a will, and out of the will come practice. Now, with reference to the passage where Moses says, "I set before you life and death, blessing and curses; choose life that ye may live," etc.; I have this to say, in the presence of all the ministering brethren here, as well as this respectable audience, that, under the conditional covenant, God never, at any time, promised eternal life to any man in it. Mark it well, and I challenge the wisdom of this audience on the other side of the question, that God never threatened eternal damnation under that covenant; consequently, no such declaration can be found, either in the 18th or 33rd chapter of Ezekiel. What are the facts presented? They are these: if you will do so and so, you shall live; but if you do so and so, you shall die. That is the language. There is nothing about eternal life or eternal death. Temporal blessings and temporal life and temporal death, are all that is promised under that covenant. It was a typical covenant. God says (I will quote the covenant, Heb. viii, 10): "I will make a new covenant, not according to the covenant I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt; and this is the covenant I will make with them: I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people, and they shall not teach every man his neighbor, saying, Know the Lord; for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest, and I will be merciful to their unrighteousness. [O, thank the Lord!] I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more."
(Time expired.)
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