Joel Hume's Third Speech.
HUME'S THIRD AND CLOSING SPEECH,ON THE FIRST PROPOSITION.
Gentlemen Moderators, Ladies and Gentlemen:---From the information we have received from the President, I suppose that this short speech will close the discussion on the present proposition, and as I am aware that a great deal depends upon a correct understanding of the meaning of the terms "every man," I propose to refer you in the outset to a number of quotations that I have noted, directly upon the subject, to show you the uncertainty of attempting to found a system upon the meaning of any one or all of these terms together. Turn, if you please, to 2 Cor. vi, 10. Now my dear friends, I desire that you examine these matters as for eternity, and I wish you to know the truth, that your minds may be properly informed upon the subject--"As sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, yet possessing all things." Now, there is all just as plain as can be; and is there an individual in this house who will say that the terms all things mean all things. Do you believe it means anything that pertains to this world--did he mean gold and silver? You know he did not; yet he says, that as being poor, yet possessing all things. I suppose that the apostle meant all things pertaining to the salvation in Christ Jesus. Elder Stinson admits the truth of the whole of this. Now, see Ephesians vi, 21--"But that ye also may know my affairs, and how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things." Now, do you think he intended to make known to them all things, the price of produce, and the like? Is it not plainly manifest that he was to make known to him all things pertaining to a life of holiness? and yet we find the term all things used, when it does not mean all things. Look at Acts ii, 17, "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my spirit upon all flesh." Give your own interpretation, and see what you have got. I ask you, my dear brethren, to apply your own rule to that text, and what have you--"I will pour out of my spirit upon all flesh"--just admit your interpretation that all flesh means all flesh, and you will see where it will land you. Turn to Col. i, 23, "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven, whereof I Paul am made a minister." Not only is his definition of ALL, of every man, in the same light, but here we have it that the gospel was preached to "every creature." I again ask, is there a man here believes it? Just give it the broad signification that he does, and I ask, can any man believe it? Why, then, claim that the term means what he says it does, when you see it will involve you in such difficulties? Turn to Isaiah xlv, 23, "I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." Now, just give that the gentleman's interpretation, and where do you land. Is it not evident as the shining sun at noonday, that the writer has reference to none but human beings; yet he says every knee shall bow, etc.; and you don't believe it. See Rev. xii, 9, "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent called the devil and satan, which deceiveth the whole world." Not only the world, but the whole world. I ask, do you believe in the application of that text, as our brother has given it? Do you believe the world is all deceived by this individual-- then there is none righteous, none that understand, for he says he deceiveth the world--has there ever been a time when the whole world was deceived by satan? I will leave it to you to say.
Again, Rev. xiii, 3: "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death, and his deadly wound was healed, and all the world wandered after the beast." When was that? when did it occur? has there ever been a time that that was true? If the definition of my friend is true, that the world means the race, I repeat, has there ever been a time when all mankind were wandering after the devil? You see, my friends, it will not do to found a system upon these passages. 16th verse of the same chapter: "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand or in their foreheads." Compare that with the language of Jehovah: "I have reserved unto myself seven thousand men that have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal." Yet according to my friend, every creature and all men have received this mark. In Rev. xiv, 9: "And the third angel followed, saying with a loud voice, if any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation," etc. Admit his definition and I prove the universal damnation of the race. In the other verse he says, "All men were called and received that mark." He tells us that upon all that receive it is poured out the wrath of God; consequently the race of men are damned; and this is worse that Universalism. To Rom. v, 18, I have simply to say what I said before, and my friend, Elder Stinson, has not attempted to deny that I told the truth. What was my explanation of that passage? It was this: that if, by the obedience of Jesus Christ, the free gift came upon all men unto justification, then all men were saved; for that is all (justification) that any man needs to be saved. Justification unto life is all I need, or any other sinner. I remarked to my brother that I did not admit it referred to the race, but I admitted it referred to the elect of God.
[STINSON.--That is the way to come to it.]
Who are the elect? Why, all the family of believers. Is that the way to come to it, too? All believers in Jesus Christ; every sinner upon God's earth that is born of Jesus Christ; I care not their name or color; every single believer on the Lord Jesus Christ belongs to the number. My view of the matter is this: God never intended to exhibit a plan that would result in no profit to them.
[STINSON.--Are any but the elect represented in the first Adam there?]
I believe they are. I understand his object in that question. It is to involve me in Parkerism and Calvinism. Understand me, then: I believe that all persons to whom justification unto life is given, believers in any church, whether Calvinistics, general Baptists, or in any other church, are involved.
The gentleman told us that he did not wish the audience to go away with his wisdom, but wanted to impress them with the views of the wise and learned. I suppose no man has ever more deeply lamented the want of a common education than I have. True, in every age there have been thousands of wiser men than I, and there are tens of thousands of this character now; but while I make this admission, I am under no obligation to suffer any man on earth to keep my conscience and to point out to me what I shall believe upon the great doctrines of Christianity. Dr. Clarke was a wise and good man; so was Wesley. Yet might not these men be mistaken just as well as Elder Stinson, and more especially when you take into consideration this declaration: "The world by wisdom do not know God." Hence my remark, that while I would greatly desire a better education, yet I am not willing to take for granted what other men say upon the great truths of Christianity. I tell you, my dear, dying audience, I want you to go away with the truths God has revealed in the Bible, and take what the Lord had revealed, and judge, as intelligent people, for yourselves.
With respect to my being a Calvinist, I have but little more than this to say: John Calvin was a great man, but I can't say he was a good man, as I sometimes have a doubt. He was a great man. So was Alexander Campbell. Perhaps a greater and more learned man has never graced the soil of America. But will he (Elder Stinson) say I will follow John Calvin? Does he say I will follow Mr. Wesley? You know he will not. Then let me follow the same course. In some matters I differ with Calvin as much as my worthy brother. Elder Stinson believes some things that Calvin taught, but does he say he is a Calvinist on that account? He told us he wanted us to bear in mind that he made a distinction between the atonement made by Christ for actual sin in Adam and the sins of the race.
I wish you to bear in mind that if the Saviour on the cross did not bear the sins of the race, then, in heaven's name, tell me who did bear them? If he did not then and there bear the sins of all, how could he die for all? Mark the idea. Christ came to put away sin in the world. If the world has stood eighteen hundred years since, and in the end of that time sin is not put away, I ask you, did he do it? And if he did not do it, then are the race not condemned? For Jesus Christ dieth no more, and there remaineth no more sacrifice for sin? Will you consent to that explanation? I tell you, if your sins were not laid upon the Lord Jesus Christ then you are gone forever, for there is no name given under heaven whereby we must be saved; and from us poor, corrupt beings, God will never accept a sacrifice. Hence, if Jesus Christ did not bear all our sins, we are gone forever, lost, all lost! My brother has attempted in a single speech to deny the meaning of the atonement, but takes it for granted that it is an actual freeing from guilt. I would like to know what answer he will make in regard to the result of his doctrine of the atonement. Did I not tell you, if it was true, that Christ died as much for CAIN as for ABEL? for the rich man as for Lazarus? What answer was made to it? It was not even hinted at. And, consequently, we have the strange logical admission that our aged brother does not believe in his soul that Jesus shed his blood for the redemption of the people in hell, and yet that Jesus left them in hell; for we have no account of their ever coming out of there. I again repeat, if Jesus did die for them, then, in justice, they ought to be brought out of HELL, and at least set on equal footing with others. Yet here you see we have the admission that Jesus suffered for those in hell (for they are the race), yet in all that suffering and agony he effected nothing for them. It was all in vain! all lost!
The gentleman inquired in reference to the meaning of the term world, as to whether I had been able to prove that his interpretation was incorrect? I will just, by way of retorting, ask, has he proved that it was correct, and that his interpretation was a true one? I ask every intelligent person here, if I have not introduced passages of scripture to convince you that it will not do to rely upon the meaning of his interpretation, in any single case? Such as, you have ALL wandered after the beast, and the whole world lieth in sin, the whole world being taxed under Caesar, etc. So you see it will not do to rely on any of them, yet he relies upon two of them for his interpretation. I ask, if I have twenty against his two, on which side of the question does the strength lie? He tells you himself that there are but two of these twenty-two definitions that mean the race, and that twenty of them do not mean the race.
As I have a few minutes more, I will refer to Roman ix: "Nay, O man, who art thou that repliest against God; shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, why hast thou made me thus; hath not the potter power over the clay of the same lump to make one vessel to honor and another into dishonor; what if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long suffering, the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction? And that he might make known the riches of his glory in the vessels of mercy, which he had AFORE PREPARED unto glory."
Here you see is the whole system, here are vessels of wrath and vessels of mercy, and these vessels of mercy are those for whom Christ died. It is this family which is brought before you in the covenant, and of them he says: "And I will be to them a God; and they shall be to me a people; and they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying know the Lord; for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."
(Time expired.)
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