Benoni Stinson's First Speech
on Hume's Second Proposition
STINSON'S FIRST REPLY
ON THE LAST PROPOSITION.
Ladies and Gentlemen:--I rise to reply to Elder Hume; he has quoted many scriptures, in trying to prove unconditional personal salvation. It strikes me, however, that he has been very unfortunate in his selection. He has accused me, since this debate commenced, of not replying to his evidence. Does he expect me to reply to every text he has quoted in this last half hour? If he does, he is mistaken, for if I did, I should be doing what he has done, and you would have the scriptures read over again. I have a few general remarks to make, before I approach his proof. What is the question - that personal and individual salvation is bestowed upon sinners, by the sovereign grace of God unconditionally? Occasionally, we get into points that require some explanation.
Elder Hume, on yesterday, undertook to prove that the elect of God were chosen, elected and saved, before the world was, and that their salvation, by virtue of that choice or decree, was rendered certain.
[HUME-If the gentleman will allow an explanation, I would say, I did not make that remark; but I make this remark now, that in the purpose, counsel and wisdom of God, the plan of salvation was perfect; that's all.]
If his quotations were not intended to prove that the whole family of God was saved, what did he then prove? Did he not try to prove that justification, by virtue of the resurrection of Christ, had passed upon his people? Did he not say, that if they were justified, heaven was their home, and it rendered their eternal happiness certain? But, by some strange turn, he comes this morning, and says, he did not say so. Yet he undertakes to introduce a system of personal salvation, to deliver or save the elect. What are we to conclude from his argument? I will favor him as much as I can. He has undertaken to prove that the elect in the aggregate, were saved, and that individually, they were lost; for if they are not personally and individually lost, they need not salvation, neither conditional nor unconditional.
He first quotes from Isaiah xlii, 7, a beautiful prophecy. If I am not mistaken, it is that chapter which says, "I was found of them that sought me not."
[HUME-That's the chapter.]
I say that the prophecy alludes to the calling in of the gentile nations; and according to my understanding, it has not the most remote bearing on personal salvation from sin. He then quotes from Isaiah lxv, 1. This I have marked down gentiles, but he saved me the trouble of proving that it applied to the gentiles, by quoting from the 10th chapter of Romans, where Paul repeats that it meant the calling in of a people that were not a people; the calling in of a people that were blinded by their wickedness. What this could possibly have to do with personal and individual salvation, I have yet to learn. Luke xiv, 16. Here he alludes to the supper, and he finds, in connection with it, that the master told his servants to go out and compel them to come in. I ask Elder Hume if he means to be understood as saying that all who came into the supper were compelled to come in? Answer that, YES or NO, if you please. I understand that this supper was to be applied as a figure of the glorious gospel system of salvation. It was provided for certain characters. These characters were invited when the supper was ready; they had been bidden to come but were unwilling to do so; they utterly refused to come; they could not say the supper was not provided for them. I will turn his cannon upon himself. He has, in this debate, continually argued that salvation was never offered, never intended for any but the elect; and here the very persons that were invited, that were bidden to come refused to come. I ask, was not that supper for these men who did not come? I repeat, was it not provided for the men who never tasted it? I will come a little stronger upon this point. What does the master of the supper say was the reason that these men should not taste it? Was it because they could not come and eat, or was it because they would not? Yes, that was the reason; they abused their privileges, therefore it was declared that they never should taste of it. In Matthew, where the same occurrences are spoken of, it is said that the master told his servants to "go out into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid them to the marriage." We learn from Luke, that the servants said, "we have done as thou hast commanded, and there is yet room." Now comes the word upon which he intended to rely for unconditional salvation: "Go out and compel them to come in, that my house may be full." Are we to understand that his servants were to go out and bind them and bring them in? This is the only way they compel men. What a beautiful sight it would have been for those in the house who were waiting till the house was filled? Presently here come these men, ironed and bound, pulling them in. Is this the way they must compel men, contrary to their own will? What does this figure teach? Are not the ministers of the gospel the servants, who, with the glorious dispensation of the gospel, are to produce such overwhelming conviction that the sinner may be said to be overcome by it, and falls a victim to arguments and reason, and is thus compelled to come in to the supper?
Luke xv, 4, 5, alludes to the lost sheep: "What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness and go after that which is lost till he find it? And when he hath found it he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing." Elder Hume tries to prove from this irresistible and unconditional salvation. Do you apply it in that way?
[HUME-I do.]
He says he does apply it in that way; that there is an influence outside of his will, without any act on his part, outside of any operation of his mind, the Lord goes to him and says, here, I have come for you, and now you have to come or go with me whether you will or not, the thing has to be done. If he pleads that he is not ready it will be of no consequence. If he tries to get off by telling him to wait a little while, that has no effect. Even if he tells him he don't believe in him at all, that is of no account. He has to go. Elder Hume intended to apply this text to prove that sins as high as heaven have no influence in keeping him back, for his God unconditionally and irresistibly saves him. This is the doctrine he tells us he finds proved by the text just quoted. The only reply I have to make is that his argument is a misapplication of that text. The question is, does God thus personally save sinners now? He makes a great play on works and grace. He tells us that no man can save himself by his works. Has any person contended for this? What argument of mine is he opposing when he advances this argument? What scripture that I have introduced is he explaining away by this argument? If I have introduced a single text to prove that man can save himself, even in the most remote manner, by his works, I beg leave to say that I was entirely out of place. He showed you that Paul said, "by deeds there shall no flesh be justified." Elder Hume tells us that there is a method by which men can be justified, and that that method is unconditional and irresistible. I am going to try to make a compromise with Elder Hume on Gal. iii, 2: "This only would I learn of you; received ye the spirit by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith?" The apostle here asks them this question, showing them that there were two ways; he reminds them of the impossibility of having received it by the works of the law, but they had received it by the hearing of faith; and that is the way they were saved personally, by the hearing of faith. I undertake to say that no man can be saved by the hearing of faith, independent of the operations of his own mind. If he can, let Elder Hume show how. I repeat, that if we receive Christ by the hearing of faith, and faith is the condition upon which we obtain salvation and an interest in Jesus Christ, then no man can be saved independent of the operations of his mind, or in opposition to it, having it forced upon him. The very idea of a moral agent possessing freedom of his will, and with the heart believing, and this believing is the means of his receiving Christ, I regard as not only controverting his view, but instead of throwing a doubt upon the subject, it positively proves that personal salvation is conditional. I can not notice all his passages. I will now notice the scriptures that I understand to teach that personal salvation is conditional, and is offered to us by our believing in Jesus Christ. I say again, that faith is a condition, and if my brother can show that the operations of faith n the Son of God can all be accomplished without the moral agency of man, let him show it.
For fear I might lose sight of one important text that he has brought, over and over again, to prove his position, and every time, somehow, I forgot to notice his quotation, I now notice it. John iii, 18, " He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."
You remember my brother said, in quoting this text, "Is condemned already - does not have to be condemned - the thing is already done." I have quoted that whole text, that it might at least get into the work one time. I now quote from the same chapter, 14th and 15th verses, "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up; that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life."
Here you see that faith is set forth as an operation which must take place before he can say that Christ is his. If we have shown that faith is a condition - if we have shown that the operations of faith are the exercises of the moral powers of the mind - then, if we are saved by believing, it can not be that we are saved unconditionally. There must be a condition, I think, in that.
We were next told that man's salvation, according to my showing, was of works, not of grace. I undertake to say, that not only is salvation by grace, but that every perfect gift that man receives, whether temporal or spiritual, comes down from the Father of Light. He argues that because we make faith a condition, salvation, therefore, must be of works. Let his controversy be in the right direction. When Jesus says whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life, the controversy is thrown between Elder Hume and him, in that matter, unless he can show that faith is something outside of the operations of the human mind.
(Time expired.)
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