Joel Hume's Third Affirmative Speech
on His First Proposition
HUME'S THIRD ADDRESS,
ON HIS FIRST PROPOSITION.
Gentlemen Moderators, Ladies and Gentlemen:--Again I rise for the purpose of closing my affirmation, on the first proposition. If declamation was to be taken as evidence of my defeat, we have had abundance of it; and I have no doubt the stock will be increased, but I believe the Bible is the umpire in this discussion. Our brother seems to be very fearful of the Bible, more especially of those parts to which I invite his attention. I have not quite done yet. Ephesians v, 25,26 and 27: "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word: that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish." If such language as this fails to maintain a proposition, it is because the Bible fails. Here is the very language of my proposition; presenting precisely whom he did die for, and what he intended them to do, that they should be presented to himself, a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or anything of the kind. We will now read a portion of the eighth chapter of Romans, beginning at the twenty-eighth verse; but first let me say that in this I propose to show two things; 1. God's peculiar people, are the object of his love. 2. That these people can not be lost. We will read: "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the first-born among many brethren. Moreover, whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified. What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay anything to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, for thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors, through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." My proposition says, that those for whom Christ died shall be eternally saved. What does the Divine writer say upon this subject? It appears that the apostle anticipated the objections that would be made; consequently, in the investigation of this subject, he has ransacked heaven, he has searched all the earth, and tells us that nothing under the domain of God is able to separate them from God's affection, neither things present nor things to come, heights nor depths, angels nor any other creature under heaven. Mark you, all these things can not separate them from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus, consequently their eternal salvation is secure. One text more from John: "My sheep hear my voice, they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish." Is not that the language of my proposition; does it not carry us into eternity? They shall never perish, the reason is, my Father gave them me, and none shall take them away.
Now, refer to John v, 24, as conclusive evidence of the truth of my proposition in that verse. We have this language: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me hath everlasting life and shall not come into condemnation, but is passed from death unto life." If they shall not come into condemnation, is not heaven their home? Turn to Isaiah liv, 17: "No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper, and every tongue that shall rise against thee thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord." Here, Jehovah is speaking of the final salvation and redemption. I say, if no weapon shall prosper against them, if they condemn every tongue, what is in the way? I say, if this passage does not prove their eternal salvation, then the Bible proves nothing.
I will notice our brother's rambling a little. I believe that I had just closed my remarks upon what he said, in regard to as many as believed were ordained to eternal life. The next thing I notice is this: he said, Mr. Hume's proposition is not sustained. I do not intend to say that about him; I will leave this matter to the congregation to determine it. I dare not risk myself to do this, therefore, I will just pass it over. Our friend told, again, that so deep were the consequences that would result from what he was doing, that some sinner might be condemned, who might otherwise have been saved. For my part, I have no power to condemn a sinner; I have no power to interfere; if my Jesus is their Savior, he alone must bring condemnation. Again, he says, the learned have told him that he has employed the strongest language in maintaining the doctrine of the atonement, that it was possible for any man to employ. Well, if they have, they have not consulted me; they have not paid that attention to me that they have to him; but it matters nothing to me, if the Bible is against him. If my God says I am right, I know I am.
Now, about these sheep: Father Stinson told us that they were not his sheep, till after they heard his voice, and believed in Christ. If they were not Christ's sheep, will he tell us whose they were? I want to know.
[Elder Stinson was here understood to say, they were the children of wrath, when Hume continued.--Rep.]
I suppose, then they were the opposite of sheep - goats. If you will read the account of the last, great day, you learn that Jesus will divide the sheep from the goats, and he will say to those sheep, "Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world." Mark the idea--did God prepare a kingdom for certain people, and then fail to bring them to the enjoyment of it? Such an idea is altogether unreasonable. Then we take the ground, the kingdom was prepared for the sheep, and God declares they shall enter it and enjoy it. We then had a strange idea presented to our minds. Our brother admitted that the twelve apostles were God's elect, the great pillar upon which God built his church. Admit that; over the way yonder, is a gang of goats, if they will come over into this kingdom, they may. Is it not strange that Jehovah would elect a foundation, and yet leave the materials of the building to come in at their own will? Would he make the foundation safe and secure, and leave the whole building suspended on contingencies? If God did lay the foundation, then we take the ground, he selected the materials, so that the foundation and materials formed a perfect building--that building is the Church of God.
And my dear brother said, the powers of hell could not prevail against it, so says Jesus Christ of that church: "I say unto thee, thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell can not prevail against it." Then, friends, we have it mighty nigh safe for eternity. I believe you might take a sheepskin and lap (wrap) up a goat in it, and you would not know the difference; but just as soon as you heard it bleat, you would know it was no sheep. There are a great many men in these days lapped (wrapped) up in goatskins. I am not alluding to anybody here; but to carry out the idea, thousands clothe themselves in sheepskins, but we ought to be cautious, and beware of dogs.
A word about what he said respecting Paul writing many things hard to be understood. And he remarked: "Some men wrested them to their own destruction." What did he mean? Simply, that they did not understand; consequently, that they did not apply them rightly. And we professed ministers ought to be very cautious, to be sure that we put them where the Lord Jesus Christ designed them to be.
I need a little eye-salve of divine grace, and I need it to see the point which he tried to make, in the first chapter of Ephesians; but to save my life, I can not see the point. He read nearly the whole of the chapter, objecting to my views, and when he was done, I could not tell what he believed about it. But there is one thing certain. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ; Paul an apostle of Jesus Christ, by the will of God to the saints which are at Ephesians, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus; According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy, and without blame before him in love. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
Here they are, and I ask you if all the logic upon earth that every man has got, can you get anybody else in this connection, save Paul, the apostles, the saints in Ephesus, and the faithful in Christ, unless the scriptures are wrested?
We were told that the apostles were the first that trusted in Christ. I had really thought that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had done so before the apostles. And the idea is perfectly brand new to me, that the apostles were the first characters that trusted in Christ--so new, so contrary to the Bible, that I do not receive it. You can do just as you please.
But did you notice that our brother put in nearly the whole time on conditional salvation? Did you notice how many passages he explained of the seventy-five in my first speech, and nine in the last speech? Out of the whole number, he condescended to notice only seven. What can be the reason? He must surely think that my texts were not worthy of the notice of a gentleman of talent. But it is his duty to notice my scriptures, and endeavor to set them aside; if he can not do that, to acknowledge the truth of my proposition. I have shown you, my dear friends, from such a host of scripture evidence, and evidence that my brother will never notice, that the doctrine of election or God's choice is taught in the Bible. I have shown you that choice took place before the world began. He dare not deny it. I have shown you that the church had grace given them before the world began. I have shown you that Christ's blood was shed for the church by the expressions of the apostles. I then referred to Ephesians v, in which it is said: "Husbands love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it." Now, I ask you does it not prove my proposition? I agreed to show you that the doctrine was taught there; and I ask you, do not these scriptures prove it? I agreed also to prove that the Divine Savior gave his life for these people, and that they all would be saved eternally. If these scriptures have not convinced your mind, will you tell me when eternal life can end? The scripture says they shall never perish; then if they never perish, they will never die, but live eternally. Jesus says, I and my Father are one, and that none can get them out of his Father's hands. I ask you, my dear dying friends, for it may be the last time that you and I will ever meet on this side of eternity, to take the matter home with you, and examine it for yourselves; for, as I have said before, if the doctrine he has mentioned is right, I am wrong. How very important, then, that you examine these things, and see for yourselves.
I have told you that the mission of Christ was to save his people. There is not a single text I have introduced that talks about conditions. I have also shown that the Savior himself did not teach universal atonement; but when he came upon the most solemn occasion, to bear witness of what his blood was shed for, he tells them it was done for many, but in no case does he say it was done for all. We all admit that the word all will not do to rely upon, to found a system of salvation. We must take the meaning of the words from the connection in which they stand; and in this case, both in Matthew and Mark, he says that his blood was shed for many. Do you believe the he possessed an inexhaustible fountain of wisdom? If he did, then he knew how many would be benefited by his death. Can you believe that Jesus died for a people of whom it is said the God had indignation forever? Can you believe that he died for the rich man in hell as well as Lazarus? If you can believe this, and if he failed in dying for one, he may have failed in dying for thousands. We maintain that he died for the church, and that this embraces every believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, of every denomination, and of no denomination. I believe there are thousands of these latter saved, who do not belong to any church among all orders. So far as relates to the doctrines alluded to, are they sustained? I maintain that the proposition is fully taught in the Bible. My dear friends, if you are not willing to receive my account, my interpretation, then look for yourselves, pray for yourselves, investigate for yourselves, and may God help you to do so properly.
(Time expired.)
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