Joel Hume's First Speech
on Stinson's Third Proposition
HUME'S FIRST REPLY
ON THE THIRD PROPOSITION.
Gentlemen Moderators, Ladies and Gentlemen: It must now be manifest to every one of you, why I, in my correspondence with Elder Stinson, and in my suggestion since I came here, desired these two propositions blended together. I wrote to him that, if the propositions remained as they were then, we must necessarily occupy the same ground twice, and that repetition is generally irksome to an audience. The same facts have been stated to him since we have been together; nevertheless, it seems not to be his pleasure to grant the union of these two propositions, second and third, but to discuss them separately. I do not possess sufficient wisdom to see any difference in the doctrine of the two propositions. That the wording is different, none will deny, but the doctrine is precisely the same. I am inclined to think that he is of the same opinion now, from the fact that we have had no new texts of scripture--neither can we have but very few, for the same facts are to be proved again in regard to the command of Christ to the apostles to preach the gospel, and to preach that gospel to every creature under heaven. I am as unshaken a believer in its truth as any man. Neither do I believe that Christ, in the giving of that commission, designed it to be restricted, but that it should be preached in all the world. I would, however, ask, hoping an answer from him, for what purpose was that gospel to be preached? Will an answer from Elder Stinson or one from Mr. Hume be more satisfactory than one from Christ? This point is settled by the Savior in these words: "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto all nations." That is the language of the Savior. That God requires the preaching of the gospel for that purpose, I do verily believe. That is enough on that subject. While I admit this fact, I am not at all ashamed to acknowledge my ignorance as relates to some portions of scripture. And here I will make an admission that my friends are welcome to the benefit of, if any can be derived from it; it is this: the 15th verse of the 1st chapter of Mark has caused me more serious study, more close attention, more intense application, and perhaps more prayer to God, than any other one passage found in the Bible; and I confess now that there has been no passage introduced into this discussion about which my mind is as unsettled: "The time is fulfilled, the kingdom of heaven is at hand; repent ye, and believe the gospel." That is the whole text; and I can not, as an honest man, tell you that this address was made to the disciples; consequently, the mystery in my mind is in regard to its application. I can not reconcile that single verse with the general tenor of revelation upon the subject. The best I can do is this: I learn from the Bible that where the word of a king is, there is power. Jesus Christ was the king, and when he made this commandment, he possessed power to enforce it, and understood to whom it was to be applied. Now, if that is not the meaning, I confess I do not understand it. I would not know how to reconcile that expression with what the apostle says, in Acts v, 31, where it says that God has exalted Christ with his own right hand to be a Prince and a Savior, to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. Now, if repentance is an act of the creature, and if mankind possess that power, I can not see the propriety of Christ being exalted to give it. It is either a gift of Christ, or an act of the creature; it is not both. Here we have an emphatic declaration that God has exalted Christ for that purpose, not only to give repentance to Israel, but forgiveness of sins. This is precisely the view I entertain of the gospel plan.
Another argument--I believe that everything connected with the Christian system is of a spiritual character; and, as my worthy friend has remarked, and I would say truly, sinners are in a state of death or alienation from God. I have his evidence of the fact that sinners are not only dead, but without strength. I can not, to save my life, see how a creature in that condition can perform any kind of spiritual action. Mankind, in nature, are but natural; while everything pertaining to Christianity or the gospel is spiritual; all the graces of the Divine Spirit are spiritual. The question, then, is this, will Jehovah require spiritual action from natural agents, and then damn that agent for not performing that action? Now, I want an answer. If my brother will say that these requisitions are of a spiritual character, I will give him my hand; there is no difference between us. I repeat, does Jehovah require spiritual action from natural agents? If he does, then his view is correct; but if he does not, then his view is incorrect, as I understand it. He then refers us to a declaration like this, "With the heart man believeth unto righteousness." Now, I believe that as much as any lady or gentleman in this house. My friend presents this idea, "that the exercise of this faith is within the compass of the power of the race of men." I would like him, in his next speech, to reconcile that idea with the admission made in his last. One was (as Elder Franklin said) that there were some men that had passed the day of probation. I desire an answer. If there are some men that can not, then I would like to know who they are. I understand my brother's proposition as presenting the idea that the gospel of salvation is offered to all men, and he says all men means the race. Now, he tells us there are some of that race that can not believe. He tells us the reason that they can not believe is in consequence of their having gone so far from God in sin. Now, if you can fix that up, I want it done. The last admission before he sat down was fatal to him; that is, that the sinner is dead in sin, and without strength. Now, he told us also that the power that would enable the sinner to come to Christ was not in himself--that it came from another. Now, I ask, is that power possessed by the sinner dead in sin? I hope that will be answered, for upon that turns the whole matter. He told us that the power that enabled the sinner to accept or choose came from on high. Now, I desire to know whether the unconverted sinners possess that power. If they do not, then how do they obtain it? Now, we will notice, for a moment, another quotation of scripture, that assigns a different reason why some people did not believe. In John xii, he gave you a quotation, which said they could not believe what Isaiah had said. But we will refer to John x, where it is said: "You believe not on me [well, why; what is the reason?], because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me, and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish; neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Now, here is the reason assigned, by Christ himself, why sinners do not believe. It is because they are not of his sheep. Will my worthy brother give the same reason why sinners do not believe? If he will, why then I will shake hands with him again.
Now, my friends, is these things are so, who is right, and who is wrong? I will next invite your attention to Rom. iv, 4, 5: "Now, to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt; but to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." Also the declaration, "Blessed is the man unto whom God will not impute sin." Again, we have it declared, in the same, that "it is not of him that willeth, but of God that showeth mercy." Now, with these passages before us, I submit another question. You say the sinner has salvation offered to him. I ask, does it depend upon his acceptation of that offer? If it does, then I ask, is not that an act of the creature, merely at his will? Here salvation is offered, and if the sinner has the power to accept or reject it, in either case it is the act of the creature, and not the grace of God. If it is an act of the creature, sinners are saved by work; consequently, that idea destroys the doctrine of salvation by grace entirely, and presents a system of salvation founded on work. Now, if this is true, do not you think the gospel ministry ought to be very particular in the description of these conditions--how many they are, what is their character--so that we may know where to begin and how far to go, what to do and what not to do? For if, indeed, this system is suspended, on certain conditions, we ought to know to a certainty how much to do, for a little too much might be as fatal as a little to small. We must know to a certainty, and have it backed by the word of God, where these conditions commence, upon which is suspended the salvation of the soul of a sinner; for that surely is worth more than all the world and its contents.
Now, I take the ground that the salvation of the sinner is suspended upon the sovereign grace of God, unconditionally; what I mean is, Divine light can be imparted by Christ only, and when that light is imparted, the eyes of the sinner are opened; then he sees, then he hears, then he understands, then he is alive, and he can work. In the prophecy of Isaiah it reads thus: "I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest to them that asked not of me." Is that the people brought to view in his proposition. Jehovah, in presenting the doctrine of salvation, in presenting the reign of his grace, in calling the dead to life, in calling the ignorant to wisdom, the blind to sight, in calling the unholy to holiness, says, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest to them that asked not after me. Another quotation from the same prophecy: "Yea, I will bring the blind in a way they know not; I will make darkness light to them; these things will I do unto them, and not forsake them." I ask, does he not first give these men sight? Does he require these imperfect, corrupt sinners to perform holy actions, or does he not fill the mind with a desire to perform holy action? Here is perfect harmony, but there us a perfect jargon in God's requiring the blind man to see, the dead man to do good works. For my life, I can not see as he sees. I agree to admit, if Brother Stinson is right, then I am wrong; it is impossible for us both to be right--he is just as good as I am-- neither do I dispute the honesty of his heart, nor question the purity of his motives--but to save my life, I can not receive his system. This idea of dead people working, is out of my sight--of blind people judging of colors. I can not understand the idea of natural men performing spiritual actions-- it is beyond my reach.
Now, my friend can see further than I; consequently, I take the negative of this proposition. If his system is true, salvation is the result of work. Supposing I repent and believe, or that I don't do either; I ask, upon what does my salvation turn? if I will accept the terms, use the means of grace- -if I do this, God will save me--if I will not do this, he damns me. I ask you, upon what does my salvation turn but upon my own doing? You will say, we do not believe in works any more than you, yet when we come to analyze your whole system, it turns upon works. To illustrate it, I will take a pair of scales, I will put the atonement of Christ in one end, and the Adamic sin in the other end; that precisely balances the scale, consequently the sinner stands precisely as he did before sin was in the world; I will put my sins in one end of the scale; does not the scale balance against me? vice versa, I put my faith and repentance in the other end; do not the scales balance in my favor--is not that my act? There is no man living can get out of that. If salvation is offered to all men, all men may be saved. If I turn the scale in my own favor, it is my own act--and salvation is of my work.
But what says the apostle: "By grace are ye saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God." "Not of works, lest any man should boast." Is that works? I repeat, that if I put my repentance and faith in one end of the scale, and it balances in my favor, does not my salvation turn upon this point? This totally destroys the doctrine of grace. If you will look at Webster, he defines grace as the free and unmerited love and favor of God. I ask you, upon condition that I do these things, I obtain favor, is that merited? I care not how small it may be, if it is only the crooking of a finger, if my salvation turns upon that crooking, is it not my work; and does not my salvation turn upon it?
(Time expired.)
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